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42 | Jessica Vogol, Movable Ink: Snackable Content and Designing Hybrid Events With Empathy

  • April 7, 2021
  • 34:08

Jessica Vogol, (VP Marketing, Movable Ink) shares her success in designing events with an audience-first mindset and how she’s approaching hybrid events.

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Top Takeaways

1

SNACKABLE CONTENT: “We kept all of our content short and snackable, 15 to 20 minutes, and we hosted this event in one day. So we had tremendous feedback from the entire audience that came and we realized this was obviously a program that we wanted to keep going...We've just had such great feedback from our audiences, that we really hit the sweet spot of the types of experiences, content and time that they want to spend at a virtual event. So we're bringing those into 2021.”

2

APPROACHING AUDIENCE WITH EMPATHY: “You really need to be empathetic to your audience. I have a small child that you might've heard earlier screaming. And so for me, if I'm invited to a virtual event, my expectations or my hopes are that it might be shorter or it might be done by the time that my workday is done. There are other people that might be looking more towards a happy hour or networking opportunity. And I think that the only real way to figure out what works best for what audience is to test that, and just try to understand and optimize for as much of the group as you can."

3

 LEVERAGING HYBRID THROUGH BLENDED EVENT PROGRAMMING: “For us, what hybrid will look like is...that our overall program's going to be a blend. So we'll continue to have some of these roadshow events, our conference in person, but there are some events...where that class of new clients might be located all over the globe. That's an event type that's absolutely optimized to be virtual. So I think what we'll start to see is there might be audiences that have more appetite to get back out there and go to an event. There might be people who are still more comfortable with virtual and having programming available for both of those groups, I think will be really important."

ABOUT Jessica Vogol

Jessica is an experienced marketing professional with a demonstrated history of success at SaaS businesses, growth-stage companies and tech startups. She is a strong leader invested in developing marketing talent and teamwork. Jessica has been at Movable Ink for 6 years, holding 4 roles within the marketing team.

As Vice President of Marketing at Movable Ink, Jessica leads a team responsible for all global performance marketing activities including demand generation, ABM, client, partner, content, and events marketing. In her role, she created and launched the Think Summit, annual conference, as well as two roadshow programs: the Experience Transformation Tour (formerly the Email Transformation Tour) and the X Series.

Episode Transcript

JESSICA:

We'd talked as I joined that people said, "We'd really love to do a customer conference." Sorry, I'm going to pause. Can you hear my son screaming in the background?

 

BRANDON:

Hello, and welcome back to In-Person brought to you by Bizzabo. In case you and I haven't already met, I'm Brandon Rafalson. And in each episode of In-Person, we explore the world's most daring events and the people who make them happen today. We are on the move with Jessica Vogol from Movable Ink, an organization that helps digital marketers create personalized visual experiences across email, web and display. Jessica is an experienced marketing professional with a demonstrated history of success at large and small SaaS businesses.

 

BRANDON:

As vice president of marketing at Movable Ink, Jessica's mission is to drive brand engagement and next level experiences for Movable Ink's 700 plus global customers. She leads the team responsible for all global revenue generating marketing activities, including demand generation, ABM, client, partner, and events marketing. During her tenure, she developed and launched the Think Summit, as well as two road show programs, the Experience Transformation tour and the X series.

 

BRANDON:

In this episode, we explore how Jessica has built these event programs from the group up and how she has adapted them to the virtual medium, while also creating unique virtual first experiences. We then discuss the psychology of snackable content, breaking the ice with virtual attendees to create meaningful networking sessions, how events can be a kind of therapy, and how Jessica and her team are thinking about adding in-person events back into their portfolio alongside virtual. Let's get to it.

 

BRANDON:

Jessica, I know you have a background in SaaS marketing and economics, and today you are leading the marketing and events team over at Moveable Ink. Could you walk us through how you have that origin in economics and that space and got to where you are today?

 

JESSICA:

Yeah, absolutely. I studied economics at Boston College. I was really interested in financial services, but as I got into my later years of college, thought that I wanted to do something that I would be able to apply creativity as well. So I ended up interning for an investment research company called themarkets.com as a marketing intern. This was back in 2006, 2007. Once I had my first exposure to marketing, was really interested in it. I loved the way that you could apply numbers but also really be creative, try new things. Marketing obviously looked a lot different back then than it does now. We didn't really have things like marketing automation or this idea of account-based marketing, but that was really my first foray.

 

JESSICA:

After that, I went to a company called Second Market, which really blended the venture backed startup space and investment management, those financial markets, again in marketing. And from there my career has landed me at a couple of software venture backed companies. Most recently, as you said, I've been at Movable Ink for the past six years. I lead our marketing team, which includes events, which we're here to talk about today, as well as client marketing, partner marketing, demand generation an, international arm, and really everything that we can do as a team to support the growth of the business.

 

BRANDON:

And through that all I know that you have a through-line of passionate being data-driven and your approach to marketing. How does that influence the way that you approach Movable Ink's event strategy?

 

JESSICA:

So I think one of my mantras as a marketer is that as much as I can, I want every single touch point program to be better than the last. I don't really consider anything sacred. I think for events, how that's translated is my team is really data driven in the way that they think about how we optimize our programs. When I say data, sometimes that's quantitative. We do a survey and we ask an experience score. We look at our RSVP and attendance numbers, our email engagement. Sometimes that's qualitative data too, the comments that our internal teams are giving us, the feedback that we get through post event outreach.

 

JESSICA:

I think that really why that's been so helpful as we've evolved our programs is we're always really thinking about how we can make that next touch point that we have with our customers or prospects better, whether that's through very technical things, like I had issues logging onto a Zoom or something that's like this amount of time is great. Or once I get past 5:00 PM, I'm with my kids, let's not try to plan for that. So I think that in both in-person and virtual events, we've really tried to use data as much as we can to make sure that we're delivering our audience what they want and expect from an event.

 

BRANDON:

I really appreciate what you just said there about that qualitative feedback as well, especially as we're all adapting to virtual events. It's a whole new world for organizations, but also the people attending these events. Are there any key takeaways that have popped out from this past year of moving to virtual?

 

JESSICA:

For us, optimizing for time has been one of the hardest things to figure out. We as event marketers, if we're delivering this amazing wine and cheese and music experience, we want to fit it into this perfect 45 minute bucket to get the most out of everything. Whereas sometimes our attendees, they're fine devoting 15 minutes and speeding through it. They get a touch of the experience, but they really want to focus on the content or they want to have more time to network. So I think that that's one of the things that data has allowed us to let go of the reins a little bit and realize there's some things that you can "rush." There's some things that we really need to make sure that you allocate time for. So I think that's been one of our interesting learnings.

 

BRANDON:

To take a step back to when you first joined Movable Ink, I know that one of the big projects that you were tasked with was launching the Think Summit, which is a flagship event produced by Movable Ink. Could you share with us a little bit about your journey in producing this conference with the rest of the team, and how it evolved?

 

JESSICA:

Yeah. So that was one of the most transformative experiences of my career. When I started at Movable in 2015 in my onboarding conversations, many people had said, "We'd love to do a customer conference." That was the extent of how far that went. And so I was really tasked and had the opportunity to envision soup to nuts, what does that mean, everything from naming it to helping the brand with our internal design team, figuring out the format. Even back then, one of the things that I felt strongly about being an attendee at so many marketing conferences was I didn't want it to feel like a traditional trade show or just an event that you sat there and had people speak to you all day.

 

JESSICA:

So our first event in 2016, we hosted at the Dream Downtown hotel. Visually the brand was very different than I think a lot of the conferences that you go to. We tried to incorporate a lot of surprise and delight. Musicians, magicians, some great fun and food during the day. And since that event obviously was our smallest with around 100, 125 attendees, we really got a taste for what this could look like in the future.

 

JESSICA:

One of the first things that we found was it was very valuable for our customers to hear from other clients on what they had done with Movable Ink, not just this was the email campaign and this was the updated email campaign, but what was the thought process that went into it, who was involved? We kept all of our content short and snackable, 15 to 20 minutes, and we hosted this event in one day. So we had tremendous feedback from the entire audience that came and we realized this was obviously a program that we wanted to keep going, but also was the inspiration for one of our roadshow events, which I'm sure we'll speak to a little bit later as well.

 

JESSICA:

In the years that we've hosted it, so our last in-person was in 2019, we had 750 people attend. So obviously, the event evolved into something a lot bigger, but one of the things that we've tried to stay conscious of was that we didn't lose the feel of that intimate, exclusive, fun, different event that the people that had come to Think Summit over the years had come to expect. We did start to see a lot of repeat attendees who note it was fun that they would share their experiences too, like "I was at the first thing summit with the double rainbow on the roof of the Dream," but that we had created this larger community through that as well. So I think that we did a great job there.

 

JESSICA:

And then in 2020, obviously we had to change course what that looks like for Movable Ink, we renamed or rebranded as (Re)Think, trying to rethink the way that you're approaching your marketing program, but also a fun play on our existing brand. We had, I think over 2,000 registrants for this virtual event and over 1,000 live attendees, which we're really proud of. The event was four days in two to three hour increments. So taking those learnings from our other virtual events to make sure that we weren't expecting someone to sit and stare at their Zoom for eight hours a day, that we made the schedule really accessible using Bizzabo, and that people were just able to either drop in for what was most valuable for them or listen on demand. We did some fun things like raffling off things to make your home better, like Home Depot gift cards, a Peloton, et cetera, to incentivize people to join live, but we have all that content available on demand after as well.

 

BRANDON:

It sounds like quite the journey with the Think Summit from a smaller event in a hotel to a much larger event, to moving to virtual. One of the things that stood out to me and you're describing that even at the initial in-person event back in 2016, you mentioned this idea of snackable content of 20 minute sessions, which is something that's in the fashion right now when it comes to virtual events, but you were already pioneering that for in-person.

 

JESSICA:

Yeah, it's funny. We obviously had all been to a lot of events and read behavioral science stuff back then, which even said, how to optimize for how many breaks you have. Someone can most likely pay attention for between an hour and an hour and a half consecutively. And we thought we'd much rather get four different customer stories in there than one or two long keynotes.

 

BRANDON:

Great. So you looked at this, a behavioral psychology to inform how you were structuring your agenda even back then?

 

JESSICA:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, absolutely.

 

BRANDON:

So you mentioned, to just reiterate there's this attention span of around an hour, hour and a half or so. So you've been kept that in mind to pocket 20, 25 minute sessions throughout that?

 

JESSICA:

We would use that, make sure that we had breaks at those increments and that those weren't just breaks where you would sit down and check your email, check your computers. We had some that were standing stretch breaks, we had music, we had food. So just tried to encourage people to get up, move around, talk to people. We did have some longer breaks too, just to make sure that it doesn't really matter if you crammed in eight hours of content, if no one can even remember what they heard because they were so stunned from being talked at all day.

 

BRANDON:

I'd love to in a second, talk a little bit more about how you approached content for (Re)Think, and also how you managed to integrate a little bit of the surprise and delight. That seemed very front and center to the physical experience. But before we do, let's talk briefly about the road show that was launched.

 

JESSICA:

After we had hosted our first Think Summit, as I mentioned, we heard people really said like, "I loved being able to hear from this client about what they did, that really sparked inspiration." One of the things that's, I think really compelling about the Movable Ink product, but also a fun challenge as a marketer is different industries and different companies use our product very differently based on what their goals are and what they're trying to achieve. So really being able to put our customers front and center got prospective customers, partners, et cetera, inspired to learn more about what they could do in a way that we just couldn't do through a million eBooks and lookbooks.

 

JESSICA:

So we decided in 2017 to take this on the road. We launched something called the Email Transformation Tour, which we hosted consecutively through 2020. And that was as an In-Person event, a two to three hour quick end-of-day, happy hour plus 30, 45 minutes of content total, where we would put two customers up on stage. We would talk quickly about who we were based on who was in the crowd, tailor that content. But same thing, 15 or 20 minute case studies gave our clients the opportunity to be the star and also connected them and helped create that community for local email marketers in LA or Minneapolis, or any of the markets that we served.

 

JESSICA:

In the three years that we were hosting it in person, we actually visited seven different countries with the roadshow series. So it was a great success.

 

BRANDON:

Wow. So you really took it on the international circuit?

 

JESSICA:

We did. So I'm excited to get back on the road once COVID's over and bring the tour internationally again.

 

BRANDON:

I'm super interested to hear, Jessica, you had this massive program that was not only where you had this flagship summit, but this expansive roadshow as well, going to so many countries. In our conversation before this interview, you mentioned that there are 50 virtual event programs that you've been working on this year or planned for this year. How have you and your team adapted to everything that's going on, and whether it's this road show element or this flagship summit, finding ways to repurpose it for this new medium?

 

JESSICA:

First, I want to shout out. I have the best events team in the business. So Ariel, Danielle and Sarah, they're tremendous, tremendous event marketers. Right in the beginning of COVID in March last year, they were really thinking about what does this look like if we're not on the road anymore? We had two main event series. So Email Transformation tour, which I mentioned, and then an executive level series that we had had success with as well in 2019. So the first thought was really how do we take those two events for the CMOs and VPs that we speak to, and then our day-to-day contacts and turn that into something fun, interactive, being conscious of time?

 

JESSICA:

As you mentioned, Brandon, we do have 50 events on our calendar this year. We've just had such great feedback from our audiences, that we really hit the sweet spot of the types of experiences, content and time that they want to spend at a virtual event. So we're bringing those into 2021. We've already hosted a couple that have been really successful. But then we also are launching two new event types, one which is specifically focused on onboarding new clients and making sure that they're set up for success, and that they can meet their peers. And then the other is tied to a new product that we have.

 

JESSICA:

So our events team is incredibly busy, but the one benefit to having a virtual calendar is we're removing that travel time, so we're able to support a wide array of different types of programs.

 

BRANDON:

That's so great to hear. And it sounds like a virtual event success story in some ways where you're not only able to fill in the gaps of your existing in-person programs, but being able to create these new programs specifically in this virtual medium. You mentioned receiving some pretty good feedback from attendees. When it comes to those experiences, how were you delighting and surprising them?

 

JESSICA:

There's a couple of different ways. So when we had events that were targeted for 15 or 20 people, we would focus a lot on curating that content in the conversation. We would always keep the Movable Ink portion of whether that's presentation or content very short, like less than 10 minutes if we presented, because we wanted to make sure that the conversation was valuable for them, and do things like breakout groups, do pre event surveys to make sure that the topics were really tailored to what they wanted to hear, and then fun experiences.

 

JESSICA:

We've done everything from the more standard wine and cheese tasting, olive oil, honey, all different types of things like that. We're looking at a program this year where you're mixing your own fragrance in-home, designing your own watch. We had some very, very cool experiences that we did when the X Series was in-person. So we want to deliver something premium like that. For our other events that were larger, often we'll send beer, snacks using local businesses, but also we've done comedy shows, concerts with a great band that actually played my sister's wedding. We've tried to just deliver those larger experiences too, and have it be something that's quick, but still fun and an incentive to spend a little bit more time on this Zoom meeting.

 

BRANDON:

It seems like you're pulling out all the stops in terms of finding different ways to experiment and engage with folks. And again, it's great to hear about how you're bringing in some of those physical elements too, if that's locally sourced food or beer or something like that. That's awesome. So all of this sounds like you and your team are thinking a great deal about the audience's perspective. We've talked about surveys and post event surveys, and a lot of the signals that you're looking at in the event data. In your experience, how generally do you think about designing the experience of attendees or an audience?

 

JESSICA:

One of the things that we've talked about before, but what I think that is the most important is empathy. I think being a marketer in any specific function, you really need to be empathetic to your audience, but trying to think about based on surveys and feedback, what you understand that they're looking for, but also based on your own experience. We have some different diverse perspectives on my marketing team. I have a small child that you might've heard earlier screaming. And so for me, if I'm invited to a virtual event, my expectations or my hopes are that it might be shorter or it might be done by the time that my work day is done.

 

JESSICA:

There's other people that might be looking more towards a happy hour or networking opportunity. And I think that the only real way to figure out what works best for what audience is to test that, and just try to understand and optimize for as much of the group as you can. I think that for all of our experiences, we also try to tailor things like having an option for someone who's a drinker versus a non-drinker, or if it's cheese tasting like someone who doesn't have dairy. So as much as you can find a common denominator for those experiences too, and not make someone feel like they're there, but they're not really able to partake.

 

JESSICA:

So I think that that's been one of the things that we found that's important too, and just understanding we're all on Zoom or on calls most of the day. And how can you make your event feel different, but also understand and don't be offended that someone doesn't want to sit on the phone with you for two hours?

 

BRANDON:

We spoke about the role of content in the in-person events, and we also spoke about how you and your team are being conscious of time and really trying to empathize with your virtual attendees. How has content shifted from in-person to virtual?

 

JESSICA:

I think that content becomes even more important in the virtual event space. I'm sure as marketers, no one ever wants to think that their event content was great, but there might be ways to razzle-dazzle that can balance for content that is maybe too high level or not exactly what an audience was looking for when you're in person, things like swag and the branding and the people that you're meeting.

 

JESSICA:

So I think for our virtual programs, we spent so much more time on really curating what that content looks like. So my team is reading things like Forrester and Gartner and analyst reports to understand what are the trends that this audience cares about. We try to really stay on top with our client experience team and hear what concerns are you hearing from clients? What are they thinking about?

 

JESSICA:

For both our road shows and our virtual conference this year, we've typically made Movable Ink I think the starring player in the story. For (Re)Think our conference, we changed this up completely. So we were, I'd say a supporting actor in the customer stories, but we really focused it much more on the narrative themes of customer behavior has changed and people are on their mobile devices more. And how are you thinking about retaining new segments of audiences? What does it look like to be an inclusive marketer amidst all of the turmoil that's happening in the world?

 

JESSICA:

So we really shifted our content to focus more on the stories that we wanted to tell. And we weren't sourcing speakers based on who has the best ROI with Movable Ink. We were sourcing speakers based on who had great stories to tell. And I think that based on the ratings across all of our event content, they were much higher this year on our surveys than in years past. We still had decent results, but I think that our audience really appreciated that we were focused on using their time in a way that helped them get what they wanted to out of the event.

 

BRANDON:

Another challenge that I know a lot of organizers, event producers, event marketers are facing is around networking and creating opportunities for attendees to connect with one another. We did some research on our side where we surveyed over 700 different attendees of both virtual and in-person events. And it seems like from that attending perspective as well, it's really felt that there's that gap when it comes to networking. Could you share a little bit about what you and your team at Movable Ink have done to mitigate this gap in the virtual space?

 

JESSICA:

One of the things that you see with in-person events is that there's this kind of forced networking. That's happening. You're in a room you're sitting next to someone. You don't really have a choice but to look up and meet them. With virtual, I think what's challenging is that everyone really has an appetite to network, but the experience can sometimes feel clunky. What we've seen a lot of is that sometimes it can take a long time for a conversation to get flowing, but once it does, people are so sad when we have to cut the group conversation off.

 

JESSICA:

So I think that one of the big things is just figuring out how you can warm up an audience or your attendees and get them more comfortable. One of the things that we've used is a tool called icebreaker, which is basically just one-to-one, you get matched with a random person, you can flip through some table topic style cards, which can be either work-related or just personal, like what was your favorite quarantine purchase? We found that running those icebreakers for even just 10 minutes had people so much more likely to want to engage in the group conversation.

 

JESSICA:

I know if you're in a group room with 10 people, it's that awkward experience of like, "Okay, I'm going to unmute, okay, you go. Oh no. Oh, you go, okay, sorry." So I think that really getting people comfortable right off the bat with talking is one of the things, just doing different things like that, fun questions to facilitate the conversation. And I think as those conversations get flowing and everyone finds their groove, then it doesn't feel as awkward, but starting things off on the right foot is really key to having good conversations.

 

JESSICA:

I think the other side is we've tested both using slides in breakout groups and not, and I think you have to remove that element of we're presenting at you, here's some facts let's talk about it and just make it a more open conversation. Even with our events that we have a list of questions, I always preface it by saying, "These are the topics that we think you'd be interested in talking about based on the survey, but this event is for you, and if this conversation takes another direction, then that's absolutely what we should focus on and the path we should go down."

 

BRANDON:

It's lovely to hear that, that focus on interaction and the different sessions with the attendees, and also the icebreaker, really priming folks to be a bit more social in a virtual space where it can be a little difficult to do that, especially when you have to juggle mute buttons and so on and so forth. How do you think COVID has really shifted the way that professionals in the events industry communicate with one another?

 

JESSICA:

One of the things that I think about as marketers and event professionals, COVID is a great equalizer in the way that many of us were dealing with the exact same professional challenges and things were changing every single day. We were trying to figure out how to best approach those challenges. I think that one of the things that I saw in the groups that I'm a part of is that people were much more willing to share what that looked like. Whereas in the past we might hold things close to the chest and be like, "Well, this is our proprietary formula."

 

JESSICA:

I think that that was really important because as a small team, you're not going to learn everything that you need to learn in a vacuum. And I think that doing that knowledge sharing with our partners, with our clients who are planning events, that was really valuable, I think, to both us and the people that we were sharing with.

 

JESSICA:

I think that one of the other things is just, what does this look like in the future? When are you hearing that your clients might be willing to go back to an in-person? What does hybrid look like? This idea of hybrid events is something that's been spoken about a lot, but at least in the United States, I haven't seen this done yet. So I think it's all of our best guesses of what might work and just having dialogues there. That's been one of the things that I've thought was really helpful.

 

JESSICA:

We heard from our customers too, on our events, that they were more likely and willing and open to share. Then I think in the past, especially at large companies, people would be much more guarded about their internal challenges or hierarchies or what was going on.

 

BRANDON:

And you might've mentioned it, but why do you think that is?

 

JESSICA:

Being this equalizer that the past year was, we are all in very... not in our personal situations necessarily, but in our professional situations, we're in similar boats and people really want to hear from people who are going through this together. One of our events, someone had said at the end, "This was like the marketing therapy I didn't know that I needed." And I think that just being able to talk to someone with your shared experience makes you feel better, makes you think differently about how to approach that challenge and then figure out how to go forward.

 

BRANDON:

So that all begs the question of what's next? And it seems like there are some unique opportunities for virtual that have emerged that are maybe specific to this period of time that we're in, but it's pretty clear that virtual has some benefits that will outlast this pandemic and this time as well. So when you think about later in 2021 and beyond, how are you and the Movable Ink team thinking about hybrid?

 

JESSICA:

So I think for us, what hybrid will really look like, rather than a single event that is trying to optimize both for a great digital and great in-person, I think that our overall program's going to be a blend. So we'll continue to have some of these roadshow events, our conference in person, but there are some events like our onboarding series that I mentioned where that class of new clients might be located all over the globe. That's an event type that's absolutely optimized to be virtual. So I think what we'll start to see is there might be audiences that have more appetite to get back out there and go to an event. There might be people who are still more comfortable with virtual and having programming available for both of those groups, I think will be really important.

 

JESSICA:

We've surveyed our customer advisory board. And we asked them if and when, how confident they are about returning to an in-person event, how supportive they feel their companies will be in terms of things like travel. I know we got some answers that were like, "I'm dying to go back to in-person," some that said, "I'd like to, but I'm not that confident that I will this year." This was a couple of months ago. With things changing with the vaccine so quickly, I think that that absolutely could change. We right now have put a line in the sand for our in-person conference for June of 2022. But we are evaluating a Q4 return to some of the events that we've sponsored and figuring out, in cities that we have offices where we wouldn't have to travel, should we test the water and start trying to bring those in-person experiences back? Safely obviously.

 

BRANDON:

So Q3 is where you're aiming in terms of timeline for hosted events?

 

JESSICA:

Late Q3 into Q4, maybe we'll be able to do some holiday programming in-person.

 

BRANDON:

Let's turn it over to your perspectives on being a professional in the biz. Who's someone you look up to in events, marketing or business in general?

 

JESSICA:

I think my professional role model is Sallie Krawcheck. she's the founder of Ellevest. She has previously worked in a number of investment banks and very male-dominated industries. And I've seen her speak a couple of times and read her book. I think that she's just someone that tells it like it is, and also has great insights on not being apologetic for your success and the importance of building diverse teams in that everyone shouldn't think exactly like you and the benefit of those different perspectives. So she's probably my role model in business.

 

BRANDON:

That's great. And if you could give yourself a piece of advice earlier in your career, what would it be and why?

 

JESSICA:

I'm going to tie this back into Sallie Krawcheck, but one of the quotes that I heard her say once when she spoke was, "The most important conversations about your career are happening when you're not in the room." I think that what that really ties to and the advice that I would give myself is that it's okay and it's important to advocate for yourself. I think sometimes it can be uncomfortable, or even just feel tedious as a marketer to share your wins and take your head up from being so in the weeds to showcase the successes of your work and your results. But I think that that's so important. And to that end, I've tried to do that more for myself, but also for my team. I think I have a phenomenal marketing team, I think best in the biz at Movable Ink. And so I always want to make sure that I'm sharing the wins for the people on my team too.

 

BRANDON:

I love that quote. It sounds like I need to look into adding Sallie Krawcheck to my library.

 

JESSICA:

Yes, absolutely.

 

BRANDON:

How could our listeners keep up with Movable Ink and all the great work that you and your team are doing there?

 

JESSICA:

Yes. So you can visit our website. So I will call out Movable Ink, M-O-V-A-B-L-E I-N-K. You wouldn't believe it, but we have a lot of misspellings of Movable. So visit our website. We actually have also a video podcast that we host. A lot of great content, just different resources that people can dig into. If they're interested in learning more about who we are and how we work with marketers.

 

BRANDON:

Amazing. Thank you so much, Jessica.

 

JESSICA:

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Brandon. I really appreciate the opportunity.

 

BRANDON:

Thanks again to Jessica for joining us, and thank you all listening. That's it for this one. If you like In-Person, please do all the things that podcasts ask you to do, subscribe, rate, leave a positive review and share the show with your colleagues and friends. If you'd like to share some feedback with us, or if you have any suggestions for future episodes, please drop us a line at in-personatbizzabo.com. That's in-person@isabel.com. You can also find full transcripts of the show along with key takeaways at inpersonpodcast.com In-Person is a production of Bizzabo. This episode was co-produced by Rachel Rappaport and edited by Brian Pick. Music by Ian O'Hara. Until next time I'm Brandon Rafalson, and this has been In-Person.

 

BRANDON:

Top Taylor Swift album?

 

JESSICA:

Album? Oh, this is hard. Okay.

 

BRANDON:

We can do tracks.

 

JESSICA:

Well, okay. If I said tracks, it would be All Too Well, Cruel Summer and probably Happiness off of Evermore, but I don't know. Folklore was pretty good, but I think Evermore is really good too. So I'd say 1989 or Evermore are the best albums.

 

BRANDON:

Yeah, I'm not as first in her discography, but 1989 does hold a special place in my heart.

 

JESSICA:

Yeah. And she's rerecording everything, so you'll have that opportunity to rediscover her discography.